Why are ex-servicemen disillusioned with successive govts?
Ex-servicemen have protested to PM Modi that his government too has failed to fulfil the promise of 'one rank, one pension' –OROP that was part of his party's poll campaign and a definite promise to our veteran soldiers. Embarrassingly, for the BJP government, ex-servicemen plan a rally to ask why this government has yet to issue an order demand OROP 
 
The long-standing demand of ex-servicemen for ‘one rank, one pension’ (OROP) was accepted by the Indian government in February 2014 with the then Finance Minister P Chidambaram making an announcement in this regard in the Interim Budget. The next government led by Narendra Modi too accepted the demand for OROP in the Parliament. While both the governments stated that 'money or funding is not an issue', there still is no order issued for implementing OROP.
 
"The Defence Veteran community is disillusioned with the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government, and particularly with Prime Minister Modi. We believed Modi to be a man of his word and commitment, and would implement the OROP. Remember, OROP was agreed to not only by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government, but also by Modi-led NDA government. The issue was discussed in two successive budgets, with government promising of providing funds (Paison ki Problem Nahin Hai) needed, on the floor of Parliament. However, it is with a sense of betrayal that the Veteran Community still awaits implementation orders for OROP, despite passage of over six months of its passage in Parliament," Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak (Retd).
 
India's defence budget is in the region of $46 billion or about Rs3 lakh crore. The OROP would cost 1.3% or Rs4,000 crore of the defence budget. China's defence budget size is $126 billion i.e. more than Rs8 lakh crore. Manpower wise, India has 13.25 lakh active military personnel and 21.43 lakh active reserves compared with China's 22.85 lakh active military personnel and 23 lakh active reserves.
 
Cdr Pathak is also member of the Governing Body and Pension Cell of Indian Ex Servicemen Movement. He said, "If the implementation orders are not yet out, we wonder when the money would land up in one's bank account, given the snail's pace of the Controller General of Defence Accounts, working leisurely under the Ministry of Defence. How many more aging veterans would pass on/ die, before seeing their dues in their Bank?"
 
Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM) is also organising a rally at Nagpur on 12 October 2014, to express their disappointment with the Government's delay. 
 
Earlier in February 2014, slamming the "delay" by UPA in granting 'one-rank, one-pension' for ex-servicemen, Narendra Modi had accused Congress of playing "fraud" with the armed forces. “The government, which is sitting in Delhi has always been playing a farce with the Armed Forces. Before this also, a number of times, the Finance Minister of Congress had made announcements about One Rank One Pension (OROP) but never fulfilled it. Even this time since I am repeatedly talking about it, they have announced it but this is a "fraud" (dhokha) with you. Had Congress party been honest, they had the chance to it in 10 budgets from 2004 to 2014. But they did not do it," Modi had said.
 
The 'deeply hurt, bruised and wounded conscience of ex-servicemen of India's Armed Forces', expressed their anguish towards the bureaucracy, which they feel is responsible for the step-motherly treatment meted out to defense forces. The veterans, in an letter sent to PM Modi, say, "It is this specially empowered bureaucracy which, without even a shred of any commensurate knowledge, over the past 67 years, has mastered and honed the craft of repeatedly hurting the pride and morale of the soldiers' right from the Chiefs to the sepoy. 'Jai Jawan' is handy only at crunch time or prior to elections, where after the Armed Forces are routinely relegated to the status of a 'necessary evil' type heavy baggage that the nation, perforce, has to be burdened with. This bureaucracy has been successful in contouring the political thought process in the same mould."
 
"In sheer desperation, post numerous appeals to the political leadership, they (the defense veterans) collected at Jantar Mantar, the newly baptized Mecca of protests, to, virtually, beg for One Rank One Pension -OROP. This was seen in the same light as any other 'rag tag' event of Indian street protests. No one listened to them and none cared. Now, more confused, they returned their medals to the President of India, the supreme commander of the Indian Armed Forces. These medals, which they were decorated with during their uniformed tenures, were symbols of their selfless service, dignity, valour and pride. Not one word from the supreme commander.  Some pension increase was doled out about a year ago, again, in the name of OROP but miles off the target.  Actual OROP was a resounding NO by the bureaucrats and, consequently, the government. The beleaguered lot appealed to the courts for various acts of omissions. However, their legitimate arrears, despite having been ordered for payment, by the courts, continue to be denied by the government whose attorneys are filing away plea after repeated plea to reverse or stall these orders against the normal alibi of 'what about civilians'?," they said.
 
"Then, came the first budget of the new government. The Finance Minister, also doubling as the Defence Minister, presented his budget to an over- expectant nation that wanted to hear the loud echoes of your election rallies in the financial roadmap to India's 'achhe din'. What came out was, mostly, routine and safe bets, as if all your 'bold steps to be taken' had been hijacked, once again and obviously, by the bureaucrats. The FM did proclaim sanctioning of the OROP, finally, with a layout of Rs1,000 crore. This was not even one fourth of the requisite amount. Thus, the UPA II's gambit was almost repeated. This was stunning, unbelievable but true. Again, no formal government orders about the implementation."
 
"Parting with this miniscule component of GDP for OROP will not only rebuild pride and morale of this vital and national human resource but will send a positive signal to the entire edifice of Indian armed forces which is required to remain rock solid for the non-negotiable unity and integrity of India. Lastly, I wish to submit that if you think that OROP would severely dent India's economy and the 'steel frame', please inform the ESMs in clear terms and as a finality. At least they would start breathing and stop chasing an Indian mirage," the letter sent to PM Modi said.
 
 
  • Like this story? Get our top stories by email.

    User 

    COMMENTS

    jang bahadur chhetri

    6 years ago

    H/Nb/Sub.Jang Bahadur
    I agree with M N Rao,from Hyderabad that ex-service men are not united.Moreover they are politically backward.Untill we unite and give a strong threat to government we will not get our just goal.Kahte hain jab tak bacha nahi rota ma bhi dudh nahi pilati .Thanks

    Jang Bahadur Chhetri
    Mob 9359192853

    RTV Nair

    6 years ago

    Long Live independence- The Babus could sleep with ease because of our soldiers are awaken at day and night in difficult environments. Let us keep up the word given to Defence community- One rank one Pension. During early years ie. 1950s and 60s and even in 70s the pay package to defence was that of Class 4 people like. And were treated like slaves. The pensioners now to be compensated by giving their dues.Hope ouir present PM is true to his words not like that of his predecessors who cheated us by saying we had implemented OROP.
    Jai Jawan Jai Kissan

    REPLY

    Raghupal Singh Tomar

    In Reply to RTV Nair 6 years ago

    DEFENCE SERVICE SHD BE MADE COMPULSORY THEN ONLY THE IAS LOBBY WILL REALIZE ABOUT THE NEED OF OROP.

    M N Rao

    6 years ago

    Dear Ex-Servicemen Brothers,
    Please try to know the reality. Don't blame the successive Govts. Blame ourselves. It is lack of 'UNITY. among Ex-Servicemen community especially among ORs/NCOs/JCOs who are even after retiring from the active defence service doing 'Chamacha giri' RATHER CALLED AS 'SLAVERY' to the retired officer cadre and to the political goons for their selfishness.

    open your eyes try to know the truth.

    M N Rao
    HYDERABAD
    0-9989421354

    M N Rao

    6 years ago

    Dear Ex-Servicemen Brothers,
    Please try to know the reality. Don't blame the successive Govts. Blame ourselves. It is lack of 'UNITY. among Ex-Servicemen community especially among ORs/NCOs/JCOs who are even after retiring from the active defence service doing 'Chamacha giri' RATHER CALLED AS 'SLAVERY' to the retired officer cadre and to the political goons for their selfishness.

    open your eyes try to know the truth.

    M N Rao
    HYDERABAD
    0-9989421354

    THANGAVELU

    6 years ago

    RTI has revealed that Politicians are eligible to two to three pensions at time. i.e Ex MLA,
    Ex-MLC & Ex MP all together.

    Any citizen is convinced in this logic ?

    Whereas Govt & IAS lobby is making all the justifications for not giving OROP, that too agreed in principle.

    What do we do ?

    RAJVIR SINGH DAHIYA

    6 years ago

    DUE TO EX SERVICE MEN ONLY, BJP GOT 7 LOK SABHA SEATS IN HARYANA. BUT IT IS UN FORTUNATE FOR ESM THAT BJP HAS DELAYED THE DECISION. DELAYING DECISION MEANS UN JUSTICE TO ESM.BJP WILL RELISE THIS MISTAKE ON 19TH OCT.

    REPLY

    Bipin kumar verma

    In Reply to RAJVIR SINGH DAHIYA 6 years ago

    Let us fight for the right . Politician are cunning and we buy what they sell .We all are loyal to them thinking Matri seva ( service to nation ). They are mai bap ( God father ) .We are not a commodity which is used and put to rest.On going process is to be handle politically and not by writing on walls.High ranking ex officers join parliament and they also change their color .So now think of other way round to talk to PM/ FM / Def min together in forceful manner .prepare for that looks best thing to do . This is my personal opinion. Bipin kumar verma . Ex CHELAR.

    Ravi Shanker Singh

    6 years ago

    How Politician use to make the fool to veteran during the Election campaign by raising sensitive issue for using vote bank as seen in last Lok Shabha Election but afterwards no Government prompt to take the action
    in interest of Ex-servicemen. After a fight of three decades for OROP, still it has not been implemented after announcement in the budget session. Why delay in implementation.

    RAJVIR SINGH DAHIYA

    6 years ago

    NO NOTIFICATION ON OROP MEANS NO BJP GOVT IN HAYRYANA.DELAYING DECISION REGARDING OROP COSTS MOST IN HARYANA ELECTION FOR BJP.

    Ramanath nakhate

    6 years ago

    OROP - A challenge to Gen. V.K.Singh, Min. of State for External Affairs and Retired Army Chief

    Mr.Narendra Modi at a massive rally of ex- servicemen at Rewari in Haryana more than a year ago, on 15th September 2013 had asked the Congress Government for a White Paper on the status of One Rank One Pension to defence pensioners. Gen.V.K.Singh, the retired Army Chief who had been demanding OROP to defence pensioners had adorned the Dias with Mr.Modi. Gen. Singh was elected from Haryana with a record margin of more than five lakhs votes, the second highest in the last General Election. The Gen. Singh has become the Minister of State for External Affairs and Minister of State for North Eastern Regions. The former and the present Finance Minister have made a total provision of Rs.1500 crore towards OROP for 2014-15. Gen. Singh who had supported the defence pensioners returning the medallions and awards to the President of India for non implementation of their two decade old demand of OROP and the PM Modi who had promised OROP at his several Lok Sabha election rallies have failed to live to the expectation of pensioners. The OROP has not been implemented though the new Government, committed to Achche Din, is in power for more than four months.The entire class of pensioners feel cheated by the BJP government and are restive. They feel that their ex boss is now least concerned with the welfare of pensioners or OROP as he now enjoys pay and all kinds of perks as a Minister ! The General should try to erase the feelings of his old colleagues. He must use his influence , his good office / exert pressure to ensure that OROP is implemented in a month or latest by 30-11-2014. If GOI does not implement OROP / does not issue Notification latest by 30-11- 2014, Gen. Singh must forthwith resign from the ministry / the Government and the Party.
    R.G.Nakhate.
    MarsCHSLtd.,
    Goregaon, Mumbai.

    REPLY

    JDOSVD

    In Reply to Ramanath nakhate 6 years ago

    Well put across...........I support your contention in toto.Jai Hind!

    VIJAYA KUMAR R

    6 years ago

    Barking dogs seldom bites. Show your might this time in elections.Then we will consider the soldiers power to retaliate.

    DK GUPTA

    6 years ago

    DEAR VETERANS,

    PLAIN SPEAKING, AN OFT REPEATED QUALITY OF "FAUJIES" IS LACKING. I SUGGEST THAT CHAIRMAN IESM PLAINLY TELLS THE PM AND PRESIDENT BJP THAT UNLESS THE IMPLEMENTATION LETTER IS ISSUED BEFOR 14 OCT, WE WILL OPENLY OPPOSE BJP, ITS CANDIDATES IN THE FORTHCOMING STATE POLLS

    THANGAVELU

    6 years ago

    Why our present Defense Minister & Finance Minister is tight lipped on this emotional issue of OROP? Or We need to analyze the performance of Minister based on their actions not sweet words spoken like any other politician. Let us just hope they understand the genuine rationale instead of listening packaged lies by the bureaucracy. Do they really aware of hardships of military personnel facing in hostile conditions ? Does any one of IAS lobby's kith and kin serving in Defence forces ? If yes, then they may realize the hard facts.

    Saradindu Basak

    6 years ago

    What about Gen V.K Singh? He has forgotten the BJP promise as he is now a trusted soldier of BJP Govt.It's a big surprise that people forgets their back ground so easily. Now he's a Min. & does not require pension for his monthly expenditure. Bravo!!! General. Nothing to say about Modiji, he's trying to be different but actually he's no good than his predecessors.
    Saradindu Basak

    REPLY

    VK Khurana

    In Reply to Saradindu Basak 6 years ago

    Gen.VK Singh; who ? he is no more a General, he is a Minister. now. Raat Gayi, Baat Gayi! OROP - over to next elections 2019.Best
    wishes,

    RAJVIR SINGH DAHIYA

    6 years ago

    ESM in Haryana State supported BJP due to the wrong policy (specially for defence personnel) of Congress. But it seems that BJP also marching in same direction.Due to ESM support all over INDIA BJP is in power, if government does not full fill the promises than time is not far away ESM will show their power in Haryana state election.

    sunil issar

    6 years ago

    It is indeed a shame for the government who does not have the courage to stand by its words.

    REPLY

    prasant

    In Reply to sunil issar 6 years ago

    They R also liers.... Talking to much in election campaigns...since they Knows that in India Jo Dikhta hai wo hi Bikta Hai... and by taking the advantage of this slogan they shouts more and we accepts more... But now its the time which indicates us to retaliate back by giving minority votes to Kamal in Maharastra and Haryana.

    Public Interest   Exclusive
    Is the Modi govt helping Ponzi, MLMs become legal?
    Ordinary people are the biggest losers in the Ponzi, MLMs, chit fund and money circulation schemes like Saradha, Speak Asia and QNet. Yet, under 'pressure' from powerful MNCs operating as direct selling companies, the Modi government is reportedly proposing to dilute the PCMCS Act. Will it impose stringent conditions on them or merely help them to escape scrutiny?
     
    It is reliably learnt that Department of Banking and Financial Services under the Ministry of Finance is moving a Cabinet Note on 7 October 2014 to bring exceptions to Prize Chits & Money Circulations Schemes (Banning) (PCMCS) Act, 1978.
     
    By using this amendment, several multi-level marketing (MLM) companies, like Amway, QNet may get a free run in this country and become completely legal, when they were operating in a grey area so far.  The lobbyists of these companies in Delhi have been extremely active in New Delhi to get the Narendra Modi government support by diluting the Act. The irony is that while the Finance Ministry is quietly working at diluting the Prize Chits Act, the very same government and its capital market regulator has been going after the Saradha scamsters with renewed vigour and the chairman of MPS Greenery has been arrested following action by the capital market regulator. Ponzi schemes have been bursting on the national scene with great regularity and in most cases, there is political collusion. A major scam is also being investigated in Orissa after tens of thousands of people were duped of their life savings.  
     
    So why is the dilution of the PCMCS act such a priority for the new government? Why is it being discussed so quietly, without a public engagement and seeking of feedback from stakeholders? Those who have persistently fought to protect people or highlighted activities of these MLM companies are surprised that the government has time to discuss dilution of this act, when at least six nationalised banks are headless for months and many do not even have executive directors. 
     
    EAS Sarma, former secretary to the Government of India (GoI) has written to Cabinet Secretary Ajit Seth and the Banking Secretary Mr Sandhu in response to reports that the Ministry of Finance has circulated a Cabinet note with respect to proposed amendments to the PCMCS Act, 1978.
     
    He says, “There are issues that impinge on several court cases and any dilution of the Act will prejudice the Centre's and States' cases before the Courts. Such a dilution will allow the delinquent MLM companies and their promoters to escape scot-free to the detriment of the public interest”.
     
    The Cabinet note cited by Mr Sarma comes in the wake of regular chit fund scams, like Saradha, breaking all over the country and the government's as yet ineffective efforts to bring these chit funds under control.
     
    By aping the model of MNCs, many indigenous companies are promoting illegal money circulation schemes in every nook and corner, thus ruining the fiscal system of this country. Rough estimates till now has revealed that financial consumers have lost a whopping Rs3 lakh crore by ‘investing’ or ‘buying products’ from these MNCs and local indigenous companies.
     
    Even, the Intelligence Bureau (IB) in October 2012, written to the government about the illegal financial activities of chit fund companies. The IB reported "fresh" illegal financial activities of chit fund companies and multi-level marketing schemes that were cheating lower middle class and poor people, especially from rural and semi urban areas. Of the four firms named, two companies - Rose Valley Estate Construction Ltd, Kolkata and MPS Greenery Developers Ltd, Jhargram are in West Bengal, says a report from Hindustan Times.
     
    The provisions of the PCMCS (Banning) Act, 1978 deals with such activities.  Section 2(c) of the Act defines ‘Money Circulation Scheme’ as a scheme by whatever name called for making of quick or easy money on any event or contingency relative or applicable to enrolment of new members into the scheme; for receipt of any money or valuable thing as consideration for a promise to pay money on any event or contingency relative or applicable to enrolment of new members into the scheme. This section further clarifies that it is immaterial whether the commission derived from entrance fee of new members, renewal of periodical subscriptions, conducting of seminars and sale of products or not.
     
    Section 3 of the Act bans (i) Promotion or conduct of these schemes, (ii) enrol of members into such scheme, (iii) Participate or otherwise involvement in these schemes and (iv) remit or receive of the money relating to these schemes.
     
    Mr Sarma, says, “I wish to underline the fact that ‘economic liberalisation’ should not mean welcoming firms that add no value to the economy. Most MLMs, the world over, belong to that category. Many of them are high and mighty, as they are MNCs supported by their parent countries. Their parent governments lobby on their behalf as they profiteer at the cost of the public in the developing world. These companies have, time and again, tried to sneak into the country, through the questionable FIPB route. The smaller MLMs and Chit Funds, hand-in-glove with the regulatory authorities, function merrily without registering under the Companies Act and swindle people. Several of these companies have financial links with terrorist groups, drug traffickers and so on. There is no place in India today where some family or the other is not shedding tears for having got robbed by one of these Ponzi companies! Do you want this unfortunate situation to continue and become worse?”
     
    “If this report is true and if the Act is diluted in anyway, it will not only prejudice the ongoing court cases against MLM companies like Amway but also help more and more unethical Ponzi companies to derive strength and rob millions of unwary households of their meagre savings. There will be a mushrooming of Saradha-like companies having their sway over unsuspecting public and destroying their lives. Instead of curbing the MLMs, then the Central Government will have the unenviable distinction of being an abettor of the MLMs' anti-social activity,” the former Secretary said in his letter.
     
    What is urgently needed today is not any dilution of the PCMCS Act but making it more stringent so that any company that tries to carry on activities that add no value to the economy but syphon off the savings of the small households are brought under rigorous regulatory oversight. The need of the hour is to secure coordination among regulators like SEBI, Registrar of Companies, Enforcement Directorate, Serious Fraud Investigation Office (SFIO), the State police and so on. Similarly, there is need for coordination among Central Ministries such as Finance, Corporate Affairs, Consumer Affairs and the State governments.
     
    Moneylife has been writing and exposing thousands of MLMs, including Speak Asia, QNet (earlier version Gold Quest and Quest Net), StockGuru India, NMart, Minerals for All, and so on. Even Moneylife Foundation, the voice of over 31,000 financial consumers across the country, sent a Memorandum to the then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh urging him to either to ban out rightly or put in place a regulator in-charge to monitor such MLM companies and their schemes.
  • Like this story? Get our top stories by email.

    User 

    COMMENTS

    Rohith Kp

    4 years ago

    Modi government should not support the MLM business like QNET. They are just duping people. Serious action must be taken to stop this in India.

    Umesh Galande

    4 years ago

    In case , Amway Business is MLM and I heard , already courts have declared it as illegal , then why still Amway Business is running in India ?

    Can anyone post a link of full and final judgement regarding Amway ?

    Thanks !

    REPLY

    Scott Johnson

    In Reply to Umesh Galande 4 years ago

    That's a great question. I live in the U.S., not India, so perhaps I don't understand how the Indian government system works.

    Scott Johnson

    4 years ago

    If you're reading this, you can blame yourself for not working with others to stop it. Email me at [email protected] if you do want to work together.

    Agyat Vyakti

    4 years ago

    Off the topic. This is just for awareness.. Qnet and MLM are using friends and relatives to dupe you... You may like to read Qnet modus operandi with screen shots and facts and how to avoid them here ... Please share for public interest.. Qnet Scam in delhi by Ashwin Baluja and Prithvi Raj Grover http://qnetindiascam.blogspot.in/

    Hemant Sharma

    6 years ago

    http://www.consumercomplaints.in/complai...#comment

    REPLY

    Agyat Vyakti

    In Reply to Hemant Sharma 4 years ago

    Off the topic. This is just for awareness.. Qnet and MLM are using friends and relatives to dupe you... You may like to read Qnet modus operandi with screen shots and facts and how to avoid them here ... Please share for public interest.. Qnet Scam in delhi by Ashwin Baluja and Prithvi Raj Grover http://qnetindiascam.blogspot.in/

    Manoj

    6 years ago

    Case of MLM need to be presented to PM Namo effectively by team of Moneylife experts. These all are indirectly cheating people and with your insight on the matter, it will be sound knowledge of domain, I think PMO will buy your arguments & these all MLM will be forced to curb their operations totally.

    REPLY

    Agyat Vyakti

    In Reply to Manoj 4 years ago

    Off the topic. This is just for awareness.. Qnet and MLM are using friends and relatives to dupe you... You may like to read Qnet modus operandi with screen shots and facts and how to avoid them here ... Please share for public interest.. Qnet Scam in delhi by Ashwin Baluja and Prithvi Raj Grover http://qnetindiascam.blogspot.in/

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Manoj 6 years ago

    It will be good for moneylife to post their ideas to curb the scams here so that we can also see if we can add value to the topic

    Hemant Sharma

    6 years ago

    check unicity another company peddling expensive products from bangalore like binary mlm

    Shankar

    6 years ago

    While your article highlighting the pitfalls of the amendment of the Act is commendable, I find that your reference to Saradha as a 'Chit Fund' scam is not in order. Saradha, though it call itself a chit fund, was not performing the role of a chit fund in its true sense. Much like you, Shri Gurumurthy has written quite a few articles on how this scam unfolded while at the same time making a clear distinction between a genuine chit fund and a bogus one like Saradha.

    REPLY

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Shankar 6 years ago

    think strategy india is way ahead in understanding the difference and has courage to stand by its action .these guys posted 800 scams in one year on their website . commendable

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Hemant Sharma 6 years ago

    sorry forgot the link http://www.strategyindia.com/blog/scam-a...

    Tex

    In Reply to Hemant Sharma 6 years ago

    Interesting, I didn't see Amway, Herbalife, or Qnet on that site. I sent in complaints for the first 2 of them.

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    DXN is another company from Malaysia promoting products made from Mushrooms without FSSAI permissions

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Hemant Sharma 6 years ago

    Unilever too is a mlm company

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    DXN is another company from Malaysia promoting products made from Mushrooms without FSSAI permissions

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    no Amway Herbal life and Dxn in their scam list as of today ??

    Hemant Sharma

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    Unicity. Is another company from bangalore I got to know

    Rogier van Vlissingen

    6 years ago

    Note the following summary of what is going on in the USA, which is the birth place of this particular white collar crime wave:
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2559565-...

    also, a good account (and fun read) is E. Robert Smith's book: "Downline... an intolerable potential to deceive." It should be noted that from a standpoint of economic analysis MLM simply is a pyramid scheme dressed up with sales program that is designed to give it legitimate appearance, but in the end, saturation will depress the retail margins to zero, leading to expose the pyramid scheme. This is one reason that mature MLM companies are fighting hard against on-line sales right now, for the discounts undermine retails sales, and they'd be left with only the pyramid sales, which is all there was anyway.

    REPLY

    Tex

    In Reply to Rogier van Vlissingen 6 years ago

    Rogier,

    By "online sales," you mean selling on eBay, personal web sites, etc., correct?

    I don't agree with your saturation claim. 10s of millions of people turn 18 each year. If saturation were the issue, older MLMs like Avon (over 100 years) and Amway (55 years) would have saturated LONG ago. The real problem is these MLM scams DON'T saturate, they are "the gift that keeps on giving."

    Rogier van Vlissingen

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    Clearly, the saturation issue is harder, but the overall model, that they behave like a viral infection is pretty accurate. Kay Herbert on Seeking Alpha did a good piece on that recently.

    And re online selling, right, the companies are going after unauthorized online sales by their distributors on online websites, in an attempt to protect their MSRP.

    Tex

    In Reply to Rogier van Vlissingen 6 years ago

    Saturation is not only harder, it has been thoroughly discredited by the courts.

    As far as I know, discounts will still be allowed on the HLF site, as they are on the Amway site. What the HLF sites do is prevent people from shopping around for the best prices by visiting multiple online personal sites.

    Rogier van Vlissingen

    In Reply to Tex 6 years ago

    Not so, I really don't care what the courts have or have not dismissed in the US. The economic reality remains. The reason numerous MLM companies are trying to eliminate "rogue" sellers on the web, is to control the MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price), even if they technically have to allow discounting. This action still works as a support of the illusion of an established retail price, and limits the amount of discounting. In and of itself the companies are acting to protect their pricing structure, because the MLM-concept rewards recruiting over retailing, and drives the retail margins to zero, so the companies are trying to handle this issue with restrictions. In and of itself the erosion of the retail margin economically proves that all MLMs are pyramid schemes. and that retailing is not really their purpose.

    Tex

    In Reply to Rogier van Vlissingen 6 years ago

    That's where we diverge, because I DO care what the courts, not to mention common sense, have dismissed. If it's a rejected theory, and it is a flawed theory, the person proposing it loses credibility.

    Saturation has little to do with lack of retailing. Lack of retailing indicates overpriced products, not saturation.

    RJ

    6 years ago

    What is the status now? Is this cabinet note approved?

    Sunil Pratap

    6 years ago

    Can the PCMCS Act be useful against Adooye & other such Internet schemes?

    Suiketu Shah

    6 years ago

    One shd not equate what Mr Jaitly is doing with that of PM.On several occasions we have seen Mr Jaitly continue doing exactly what Congress was doing.Pl give Mr Modi some time,its not even 4 months since he took power.Things are drastically going to change once Mr Modi wins Mumbai hands down 19 Oct.Pl give him atleast 18 months before judging him.

    REPLY

    Jai Verma

    In Reply to Suiketu Shah 6 years ago

    He is proposing amendment in the law which was enacted by Congress UPA how do you say that he is following congress

    Atif Rahman

    6 years ago

    How to start MLM i.e Ponzi scheme.
    Start with a small amount of seed money.(Capital).
    Go to small tier-2-3-4 town in India.Put false ad and recruit local educated presantable unemployed boys/girls.
    Recruit these kids at a nice hotel ,provide dinner meals ,motivating speech,future dreams blah blah.
    Some will be convinced some will withdraw.
    Start to convince/sell offers to folks locally by these bakra employees.
    Offer high value/interest on deposits.
    Collect hefty amounts...pay off the biginner investor handsomly.
    Success story spreads...more people jump into bandwagon.
    Collect more and more.
    Once target achieved jump ship.
    Local employees will be screwed.
    This has been going on for years and years in new forms.
    This scam is succesfull and unbeatable. You just need credibility in the begining.this is MLM.
    I consider Eureka Forbes/Kent Waterfilter selling as legitimate direct selling.
    Amway is a scam.
    Sorry....i consider even LIC ,Sahara etc as scam.(Not term insurance).

    REPLY

    Tex

    In Reply to Atif Rahman 6 years ago

    Atif,

    I agree. MLM has, in the words of former FTC Commissioner Dixon, that MLM has "an intolerable capacity to deceive." MLM should be made illegal, and only allow Direct Selling/one level.

    sathya cumaran

    6 years ago

    sathyacumaran dhandapani
    what ever the rules or body is formed unless the implementor of the rules should be honest and integrity and now its lacking in india because of politician looting these officials also loot in their capacity and rule makers become the rule brakers first of all there should be honesty sincerity and accountability which lacking until then indian cannot improve is my opioion

    Ajit Patel

    6 years ago

    I Think There Should Be Needed Regulatory Body To Regulate Direct Selling/MLM Companies. When Insurance Companies Regulate & Develope By IRDA, Just Like This There Should Be A Body Like DSRDA(Direct Selling Regulatory & Development Authority) Nedded For Betterment Of Direct Selling Industry & Direct Sellers.

    REPLY

    Rogier van Vlissingen

    In Reply to Ajit Patel 6 years ago

    Learn a lesson from the USA. The direct selling association has been taken over by the MLM industry. Direct sales is legal, MLM for the most part is not, if it is analyzed closely. The fundamental model of chainselling is illegal in many states. Prosecution has been a mixed bag, and has been too laborious to stop MLM, but the fundamental concept is still illegal, and these companies can be prosecuted at any time, for they implicitly violate the laws and regulations. There was just another victory in the case of BurnLounge, in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in CA, where a pyramid finding was upheld. And currently there is a prosecution in the works of TelexFree, which was shut down as a Ponzi scheme a few months ago, and an international law enforcement collaboration is now tracking down the money and the perpetrators. If marketing programs are designed so that they money is in the recruiting, not the selling, they are pyramid schemes. Recent actions by Herbalife prove the fact that under free competition retail margins go to zero, because they have unlimited numbers of distributors. That is simply how it works economically. If you design your plan to reward recruiting, people will neglect and ultimately ignore the selling, thereby proving the economic fact that a recruiting plan = a pyramid scheme.

    Head of Flawed Effort to ID Missing Soldiers Loses Job
    The departure of veteran lab director Tom Holland appears to be the first leadership change in the Pentagon’s overhaul of its identification process
     
    The longtime scientific director of the problem-ridden Pentagon agency charged with identifying the remains of service members missing from past wars is out of a job.
     
    At a recent Korean War family update meeting in Washington, Tom Holland announced he would soon be leaving as head of the laboratory at the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command, or J-PAC.
     
    "You've heard about the reorganization, and I found out last week that I'm not a part of the reorganization," Holland told the group in August.
     
    Holland's impending departure is the first leadership change to come to light as part of the major overhaul of the mission announced by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel last spring in response to increasing criticism. J-PAC and a second agency involved in the effort will be consolidated starting Jan. 1 in an effort to streamline the inefficient process. An investigation by ProPublica and NPR in March found the agency's efforts to be rife with outdated science, duplicative bureaucracy and poor leadership.
     
    Holland, who led the lab for nearly 20 years, was the focus of ProPublica's story, which found he served as an arbiter of identifications and established procedures that set an exceedingly slow pace at the lab. With 9,400 service members still buried as unknowns around the world, his restrictive policies were seen as overly cautious. Under his leadership, only one out of every 10 cases considered was ever approved for disinterment to attempt identification.
     
    Pentagon spokeswoman Cmdr. Amy Derrick-Frost wouldn't comment on personnel moves.
    Under the new organization, a medical examiner will oversee identifications and scientific operations, but that person has not yet been named. Derrick-Frost said they expect someone to be in place by late 2014 or early 2015.
     
    The appointment of a medical examiner to the lab's top leadership position has been met with protest by some of the scientific staff, who claimed in a letter to the Pentagon that a medical examiner isn't qualified to oversee their work.
     
    The MIA effort will be in flux until January 2016 when the new, as-yet-unnamed agency is fully operational. Some advocates, families of MIAs and politicians are concerned the reorganization will be little more than reshuffling of bureaucracy and are watching carefully to see what meaningful change is enacted.
     
    At the August meeting, Holland said that the last identification he thinks he'll make will be of remains from the Korean War, leaving recently unearthed remains from WWII to likely be identified by the medical examiner— including one who could possibly be Arthur "Bud" Kelder, whose family never gave up trying to find and identify his remains.
     
    In August, the Pentagon completed the disinterment of 10 unknown prisoners of war from an American World War II cemetery in Manila, where Kelder's family believed him to be buried.
    The crucial step of exhuming the men, who had buried anonymously for nearly 70 years after dying on the same day at a POW camp, came only after Kelder's family fought for years to force the government to act.
     
    Courtesy: ProPublica.org
     
  • Like this story? Get our top stories by email.

    User 

    We are listening!

    Solve the equation and enter in the Captcha field.
      Loading...
    Close

    To continue


    Please
    Sign Up or Sign In
    with

    Email
    Close

    To continue


    Please
    Sign Up or Sign In
    with

    Email

    BUY NOW

    online financial advisory
    Pathbreakers
    Pathbreakers 1 & Pathbreakers 2 contain deep insights, unknown facts and captivating events in the life of 51 top achievers, in their own words.
    online financia advisory
    The Scam
    24 Year Of The Scam: The Perennial Bestseller, reads like a Thriller!
    Moneylife Online Magazine
    Fiercely independent and pro-consumer information on personal finance
    financial magazines online
    Stockletters in 3 Flavours
    Outstanding research that beats mutual funds year after year
    financial magazines in india
    MAS: Complete Online Financial Advisory
    (Includes Moneylife Online Magazine)
    FREE: Your Complete Family Record Book
    Keep all the Personal and Financial Details of You & Your Family. In One Place So That`s Its Easy for Anyone to Find Anytime
    We promise not to share your email id with anyone