AMFI chief HN Sinor has admitted that SEBI and AMFI had made a costly error in banning entry load for mutual funds. Remember, fund companies had welcomed the ban, as had mainstream media
In a recent interview with Economic Times the Association of Mutual Funds of India (AMFI) chairman HN Sinor has admitted that Securities Exchange Board of India (SEBI) made serious a policy mistake of banning entry loads on mutual funds. He said, “One mistake SEBI made was to implement the entry load ban in a cut-and-dry manner.” Moneylife foresaw the mutual fund industry decline, especially with distribution largely getting affected. (Mutal Fund turmoil: Can SEBI be held accountable?).
Mr Sinor hopes there will be a ‘review’ for rolling back the entry load ban. This a volte face by the fund industry. In a conversation with Moneylife, several AMCs had welcomed the move made in August 2009. Mr Sinor now says, “In those days SEBI and AMFI felt the Indian enterprise was very smart and would find a way to come around it. But after two years, I realise, we’ve not been able to adjust our business model to the entry load ban. We need to dispassionately review the (entry load ban) decision once again. We have to expand this industry, and for doing that if we have to bite the bullet, we should bite the bullet.” So, at least the AMFI chief has admitted to what Moneylife has been pointing for so long. Will SEBI take heed, especially since its current chief, UK Sinha was against the ban when he was heading UTI Mutual Fund.
The resultant entry load ban has claimed many causalities, most notably the small distributors and even a reputed asset management company—Fidelity. With one single swipe in August 2009, without much discussion, SEBI changed the mutual fund industry, for the worse. Mr Sinor has admitted that Fidelity’s exit has posed a dilemma for the regulators. He said that the confidence level is very low in the industry. “After Fidelity’s decision to move out and the quick exit of four CEOs, even we’re a little worried. If officials desert the industry like this, we have a big problem at hand”, the AMFI chief openly admitted.
All this QED for us. Moneylife had written about the implications of SEBI’s actions on Fidelity, and what it means for the industry (Fidelity’s exit, a slap on SEBI’s face). We had also pointed out that with the ban on entry-load, small distributors have got squeezed out (Can relationship managers of banks replace independent financial advisors?), and because of this, banks have monopolised distribution of MF schemes. We had written recently in Moneylife magazine, citing recent data from Computer Age Management Services (CAMS) which showed that over the 11-month period (from April 2011-February 2012), banks have managed to corner 40% of SIP accounts and 30% of non-SIP accounts, when compared to Independent Financial Advisors (IFAs) who could manage only 8% of SIP accounts and 11% of non-SIP accounts. Mr Sinor pointed out that out of the 16,000 odd advisors, only 185 (independent distributors) are earning reasonable amount of money. He further says, “If you look at the commission pay-outs of distributors, there are just about 200 distributors who draw gross revenue of over Rs 1 crore. Of the 200, the top-20 are institutions and banks.” He even admits that mis-selling has happened because of the entry load ban. He adds, “This environment is pushing them (distributors) to do something which is not right.” Despite banks cornering the distribution market, mis-selling did not stop and they continued to indulge in questionable practices in mutual fund selling which Moneylife as been pointing out. (Banks receive NFO commission under the garb of ‘bank charges’) and (Now, banks blamed for continuous equity mutual fund outflows!).
According to Mr Sinor, “Distributors are not finding it worthwhile to sell mutual funds. Manufacturers are finding it difficult to expand or penetrate beyond 20 cities. It does not make a business case for manufacturers to go and sell the product in Timbuktu to collect just Rs 5-Rs10 lakh of investments.” The entry load ban has further accelerated the decline of equity culture and number of investors. In order to tackle this, our regulators and the government have come up with the half-baked Rajiv Gandhi Scheme, instead of tackling the root problem of the issue: distribution. We had written about the Rajiv Gandhi scheme here (Budget measures will leave small investors cold).
Without much empathy for the small distributor, the National Institute of Securities Markets (NISM), a certification provider which was set up by SEBI, has gone further and doubled the certification fees required by advisors to distribute mutual funds, thus increasing their costs of doing business. We had written about this here (Revised mutual funds requirements will hurt independent distributors, enrich NISM. SEBI is not really bothered about the small distributor, even after all these years.
Moneylife was the first to come up with a position paper addressing the issues facing investors in India, especially the decline in investor population. Position Paper on Issues faced by Retail Investors: an insight into declining participation of the retail investor
It may be remembered that the fund industry too was to blame for charging huge upfront costs to the unit holders including, foreign junkets, in order to sell funds. Instead of controlling these practices, SEBI has gone to the other extreme by banning upfront commissions and dozens of concomitant rules, which were hailed as pro-investor by the mainstream media, putting a halo around the head of CB Bhave when he retired. Will SEBI review the entry load ban now that Mr Sinor has spoken up, possibly with the tacit encouragement by the SEBI top brass? Or will it come up with another half-baked scheme as Mr UK Sinha did sometime last year?
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i am saying the people who r doing it .... out of that 90 % are doing only courier boy's job ....
i hope u get the difference ....
it is a tough job .... but only 10 % of the people r doing it the right way ... with knowledge, understanding etc ....
others just collect the form and deposit it ....
pl meet 5 MF advisors at random .... and ask him the AUM fig of 5 top selling funds .... within +/- 20 % accuracy wl do ....
they wl not know ....
THAT IS THE STATE OF AFFAIRS ....
Rather than calling every IFA a corrier boy..If u have any self respect you will do it
and everybody else is a fool
Exception of very few people believe
that it is very high commission driving this agent to canvas about mf/ financial awareness .Second thing is abt market ,.people think ,.it is better to invest in LIC traditional plan than market .MF ULIP financial planning are nothing but cheating so better to stick to LIC grand father ,father ,brothers friends did same .I shouldn't dare to market related instruments .People with this type of mindset are not receptive for non-equity mfs.This is very common experience .Large no .of people still not applying for PAN because they fear income tax dept ,and most of these people have earning less than 20000-30000/month.so forget abt investment in mf .Govt has done nothing for making people financially aware and if mf agent makes attempt people go to reject mf outrightly as they very pre-occupied and scared.They prefer FD/PPF /Post /GOld /real estate.Few people have burnt their fingers in equity trading so they are reluctant to invest in equity and other mf.Even with 2.25 % commission it was and it is difficult to sell in most part of country.this is the reason why mf did nt have penetration .MF AUMs are contributed from metros and not from other cities.Do you think it is courier boy job,it is difficult to earn 4000 rs/m even with entry load forget abt office and employing office/delivery boy
Distributors on their part push equity related mf for greed , for liking etc that is why IFA driven AUM debt figures are too less compared to equity
Regulatory changes are not happening only in India .they are all over with diverse models .What Mr Bhave did was not his own decision , he implemented his part in overall broad
financial regulation reforms.
Personally I am happy with whatever structure is laid down by sebi in 2009.but it was too fast and without taking ground realities into consideration.Good that many who were behind easy money left the distribution but serious people suffered.They need to be incentivised for their services .Distributors in smaller cities /less AUM must be given additional benefit for expanding reach and spreading financial awareness ,it is like social justice the way income tax slabs do.Mis-selling happened and happen at large distributors mainly at banks .Glance at commission given will give idea.They should be banned from getting current upfront also .they can have trail only.If banks are interested in distribution they must have different set up for mf even for insurance .Rms call you for investments only because they have access to ur bank account balance ,it is against the RBI guidelines but nobody cares and mis-selling , so they should be banned from entry load as well as current up fronts even transaction charges , same is applicable to big distributors .
I suggest,
In case of SIP if person is ready to invest for long e.g with 2000 /m then first aprrox rs 1500 should be given to
distributor as upfront 1.3% [with current norm up -front +trail of 1st yr],upfront of next 5 yrs [not more than that] and every month investor will get less expense ratio for next 5 yrs ,he must get free SIP switch if scheme is not performing. Trail will continue as existing.it will make distributors's urgent need to fulfill ,more long term money will come .People will not churn for brokerage. SIP money If investor decides to discontinue he will loose initial upfront which in other way he was getting back.so it will add seriousness on his part,AMC will get more money and for long term good for fund management part.
it will be win win situation for Distributors/investors/AMCs .
There is no need to change for lumpsum investments ,upfront/entry loads to be given only to IFAs in smaller cites ./with AUM but with serious attitude [parameters can be defined ]
Lastly Govt should take initiative to raise level of financial awareness .People either don't invest if they invest they don't invest with understanding.
People don't read document before signing
e.g Mr Ranade said he can not ask how much trail commission his distributor is getting ,around 0.8 %
first thing is 0.8% definitely mal-practice No AMC gives officially, others get 0.3 to 0.5 % second thing is I doubt Mr Ranade has ever read Common application form.Investor's sign is required that he is aware of commission and disclosures from ARN holder.If aware investor like Mr.Ranade i.e. above average investor does not know how much his distributor earning and signing docs,what do you expect from common people who are least informed and how IFAs dealing with them.
i felt that a trail commission is a function of how much total business advisor is bringing and a percentage of that ... it has nothing to do with individual clients ......
Just bring the dual system back and the debate should be over after that.
why do they need automatic deduction and payment from MF companies ...
because they fear that they can not justify and collect directly from investing public .....
finally ... how much anyone wl pay to drop a cheque in MF office .....
The current regulation is very progressive with a sustainable trail commission of 0.5% .In fact I think even the trail commission should be reduced for people directly investing with the fund houses as no distributor is involved in this case.In other words the expense ration of the direct investor should be less the trail commission compared to the investors going through distributors.In the current scenario the direct investor can be credited with 0.5% of his AUM as units into his account .
Secondly,many funds have very low AUM due to poor performance and hence a very high expense ratio.They were primarily the products of misselling or investor inertial.SEBI should put a cap on expensive ratio to 2% so that many of they useless funds are closed and merged with bigger funds and there is economy of scale.
Housing EMIs(even rentals) have also increased due to high interest rate now.Where is the surplus for middle class people to invest in MFs or equities? .Whatever surplus money they have is saved for short and medium term goals in Fixed Deposits.Should they invest in MFs for short and medium term goals?
As has been correctly pointed out by Randade in one of the comments,much of the MF money before the recession in 2008 was speculative money who wanted high returns on a short term basis.The people who are still invested in MFs are there for the long haul.
So,SEBI is not responsible for the position of the MF industry.The ECONOMY is.
Introduction of entry load will not change a thing.It will only result in mis-selling and drive away some serious investors towards other instruments.The short term profit margin of distributors can definitely increase but will be counterproductive in the long run.
Sensex level is decided by the supply demand of shares primarily based on the company performance. I agree that if we increase demand by increasing number of investors, price may go up, but that is not the correct reflection of market performance...tending towards manipulation with artificial demand. Furtehr retail can't influence as much as the big corporates...most of whom have suffered due to global financial meltdown.
Further, just so that you know, Mutual funds are not expected to crazily beat the market, they follow the market, they almost follow the market. Many of you are talking of 10% returns, think of 2008, before entry load, when sensex dropped to 7000, i.e. 60-70% drop.
Entry load has no meaning, its a method adopted to cheat people so mutual funds get fundings. It promotes misselling, a malpractice that has stopped since banning entry load, thus the reduced volumes. Investing in funds should be strictly based on fund performance, and not some cheating tactics adopted by distributors to get their commission.
Banning entry load i the correct decision in the long run, and it will lead to less fradulent practices, particularly concenring the retailers i.e. the common man
courier boys cant sell anything to anyone .....
i am not adressing and calling names to 10 % who know their job .....
as regards to what i am .... u r free to hv yr own opinion ... does not bother me at all ......
do u think these jokers ... the courier boys can sell anything to anyone ..... it is people who were buying .... overlooking 2 % since they were making 10 % per qtr .....
and these jokers started thinking that it dawns because they crow .....
i wrote this to moneylife also ... DONT TAKE CREDIT WHEN ITS NOT DUE ......
The number of participants do not determine sensex level, they just determine how much liquidity we can have in the market.
Sensex level is decided by the supply demand of shares primarily based on the company performance. I agree that if we increase demand by increasing number of investors, price may go up, but that is not the correct reflection of market performance...tending towards manipulation with artificial demand. Furtehr retail can't influence as much as the big corporates...most of whom have suffered due to global financial meltdown.
Further, just so that you know, Mutual funds are not expected to crazily beat the market, they follow the market, they almost follow the market. You are talking of 10% returns, think of 2008, before entry load, when sensex dropped to 7000, i.e. 60-70% drop.
Entry load has no meaning, its a method adopted to cheat people so mutual funds get fundings. It promotes misselling, a malpractice that has stopped since banning entry load, thus the reduced volumes. Investing in funds should be strictly based on fund performance, and not some cheating tactics adopted by distributors to get their commission.
indians need quick returns ....
this is the only land where stock futures r traded ... do u know that ....
i hv just stated reality when i said 10 % returns per qtr ....
u wl see what wl happen to gold funds if they come down or remain steady for 4/5 qtrs .....
better keep out of such boards and such discussions ....
India has 8 lakh crores or more assets under management in mutual funds. 10% per quarter, would make it 11.7 lakh crores in a year. In this case, I would think of accepting your 2% logic, but this is impossible to do for mutual funds.
Irrespective of what the needs of the indian investor are, it doesn't give you the right to tell them that you will meet those needs an take away their money. Because, there is no way 10% per quarter can be met by the whole market.
It is people like you who want to cheat the retailers of their own money showing them dreams and screwing their lives just for a personal profit.
And about staying out of discussions, who the hell told you india is the only place where futures are traded? Get some knowledge before posting utter rubbish.
i said this was happening .... i am not at all saying this shud happen or this will happen .....
u also hv very poor knowledge of markets .... i said STOCK futs .... not INDEX futs ...
world wide only INDEX futs r traded ....
poor soul ... what else ......
This is the only way to save MF industry. SEBI shd not delay any further or we might have another AMC quitting sooner.
The major culprits who took investors for a jolly good ride are banks and AMCs who were churning out products for their and distributors benefits only - the latest example is capital protection funds where upfront as high as 4.5% was paid. If you look at the performance of some of these funds which matured recently they hardly gave anything to investor. In the first place, if a mundane advisor like me could see the game through how the erudite members of SEBI allowed such schemes to be floated and repeated as series 1, 2 etc by the same fund house at quick intervals?
One good solution can be total ban on entry load with high trail increasing with age.
India has a rural population of 75% who practically live on hand to mouth income. How are you going to convince them to invest in a risky asset class what ever little they save? I would even go the extent of saying that it would be a crime to make a rural earner to part with his money for investment in equity when most of his basic needs would not have been met.
SEBI focuses on IFAs qualification to sell financial products. o they have any system to monitor fund managers qualification, performance and do they appraise them periodically to ensure they remain sharp as ever and are dedicated to their fiduciary capacity?
At the moment the industry needs cleaning up, systems in place to ensure gullible investors are not taken for ride by bank RMs (Money life is full of such stories) and close and careful rating and watching of performance fund managers and ensure there is no broker fundmanager nexus.
Our only point is that entry load was banned hastily and without discussion by a hotheaded Sebi team. It created chaos and confusion. We had predicted this while mutual fund heads, AMFI and mainstream media were hailing it as a great move. Now industry is doing about turn. That is all.
Sorry for interruption. Discussions may please continue
MFs sre down because market is not giving 10/12 % retrns per qtr ..... during 2003/2007 boom ... MFs were traded like stocks ... buy today ... sell 3 months later at 10 % plus ... NATURALLY NOBODY CARED ABOUT ENTRY LOAD .....
now if entry load is reinstated .... something wl be pushed thru the gullible throats ... but when they wl lose money + 2 % entry load ... they wl not comeback to MFs ever .....
only MF advisors .... courier type who r lying low now .... wl mushroom overnight as they wl get scent of money ....
WATCH OUT .....
2. Amfi is crying about entry load. That is the context -- not our taking credit. We don't need to.
ask me to keep quiet and u yrself wl continue replying to me .... cheerssssssssssss ....
enjoyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy .....
the statement from moneylife states that they are NOT in favour of the old ways.
Why cant you read first cooly?
2. The matured investors are happy with No Entry Load. As they in any case take their Own decision without dependence on any agent/house.
3. Most Agents were and will always interested in Entry Load Commissions and frequent Churning only
4. May be there could be TWO Options:-
one the DIRECT INVESTORS- those who must get their OWN ENTRY LOAD COMMISSION and
Second - who pay for services in the form of entry load to investors.
5. This way all will benefit
According to me now it should be more focus to strenghten IFA's by teaching through media & so to the investor for investing only through AMFI certified Proffessional & pay them a reasonable advisory. This can be also done by stopping Sub-brokers Channel working with corporate channel's & Banks as they do not have any personal caring for clients.
In fact, as an industry person, i can say that our bosses privately agreed, but didnt dare to speak out against SEBI. The disaster is there for all to see.
Who will do this? Sebi, right? And if it doesn't, will you yourself not blame Sebi?
lecturing is easy